kentgas
Archie Stephens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 271
|
Post by kentgas on Feb 10, 2022 10:59:21 GMT
To be fair, if you want to play 4 4 2, we don`t just need a foil for Leon. We need Leon. We also need much better team and match management because Barton doesn’t use subs well or at all Harry Anderson winning the penalty at Sutton
|
|
|
Post by lostinspace on Feb 10, 2022 12:38:54 GMT
2 recently examples of the impact of subs. 1) Walsall: Saunders (sub) made a brave challenge and the ball fell to Collins to score the winning goal 2) Scunthorpe: Clarke scored the second goal in our win. In a game that SHOULD have been a formality to close out,but for some sloppy play,
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 12:59:04 GMT
2 recently examples of the impact of subs. 1) Walsall: Saunders (sub) made a brave challenge and the ball fell to Collins to score the winning goal 2) Scunthorpe: Clarke scored the second goal in our win. In a game that SHOULD have been a formality to close out,but for some sloppy play, Agreed, but the sub scored a vital goal and he wasn't responsible for the goals conceded. Was just making a point that despite claims, we have made some good substitutions. UTG
|
|
warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,574
|
Post by warehamgas on Feb 10, 2022 13:43:07 GMT
I was on iFollow, wasn’t at all impressed by Oldham, too many nothing long balls by Oldham. Very little actual football or pressure from Oldham. We lost because we gave them too many unforced errors. I think we actually demonstrated we are far better than Oldham in the two main stats, physicality, where we owned them all night, and getting ball down and keeping possession. But for all that possession we could not find the chance creating key passes. Come on superbus, Oldham were looking for that through ball esp on the right hand side all night. And they were pressing us all night, never giving our midfield time to settle, look up or play forward. They pressed brilliantly esp on Coutts who was always having to do stuff quickly. I thought it was a masterclass in playing against a team who had 71% possession but were never able to take advantage of it. We may have been better than Oldham but we never really showed it did we? How many saves did their keeper make? One from Collins in the first half from a good move, every other save he made was comfortable, he was never extended. As for the “main stats”, better than them? Really? The main stat, goals scored showed we were not so good, we lost. I will always support us and talk us up but on Tuesday night we were done right and proper by a team fighting for their life and set up to frustrate us and hit us on the counter. They should have won 3-1 (ball over the line) and could have won with a few more goals but for Anssi. I don’t think JB is often out-thought tactically, but he was by Sheridan on Tuesday night. Move in to Mansfield now, win and somehow it will still be a good week! UTG!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 13:56:31 GMT
To be fair, if you want to play 4 4 2, we don`t just need a foil for Leon. We need Leon. We also need much better team and match management because Barton doesn’t use subs well or at all Spence at Walsall - 3 points Thomas at Bradford - 1 point Clarke v Crawley - 3 points Spence v Oxford - ££ Anderson at Sutton - 1 point Clarke at Scunny - 3 points JB doesnt use subs well. Really?
|
|
kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,354
|
Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 10, 2022 17:52:35 GMT
We also need much better team and match management because Barton doesn’t use subs well or at all Spence at Walsall - 3 points Thomas at Bradford - 1 point Clarke v Crawley - 3 points Spence v Oxford - ££ Anderson at Sutton - 1 point Clarke at Scunny - 3 points JB doesnt use subs well. Really? Yes, really.
|
|
|
Post by emperorsuperbus on Feb 11, 2022 0:03:32 GMT
I was on iFollow, wasn’t at all impressed by Oldham, too many nothing long balls by Oldham. Very little actual football or pressure from Oldham. We lost because we gave them too many unforced errors. I think we actually demonstrated we are far better than Oldham in the two main stats, physicality, where we owned them all night, and getting ball down and keeping possession. But for all that possession we could not find the chance creating key passes. Come on superbus, Oldham were looking for that through ball esp on the right hand side all night. And they were pressing us all night, never giving our midfield time to settle, look up or play forward. They pressed brilliantly esp on Coutts who was always having to do stuff quickly. I thought it was a masterclass in playing against a team who had 71% possession but were never able to take advantage of it. We may have been better than Oldham but we never really showed it did we? How many saves did their keeper make? One from Collins in the first half from a good move, every other save he made was comfortable, he was never extended. As for the “main stats”, better than them? Really? The main stat, goals scored showed we were not so good, we lost. I will always support us and talk us up but on Tuesday night we were done right and proper by a team fighting for their life and set up to frustrate us and hit us on the counter. They should have won 3-1 (ball over the line) and could have won with a few more goals but for Anssi. I don’t think JB is often out-thought tactically, but he was by Sheridan on Tuesday night. Move in to Mansfield now, win and somehow it will still be a good week! UTG! i’m going by what I saw on iFollow. You are being too polite to a awfully poor Oldham side going out the league. If we had been at our best we would have beaten them, Oldham helpless to stop us. We gifted them goals. We had possession without end product. We had the possession and physicality they couldn’t match. they didn’t take those points, we handed them to them. How? The goals conceded were poor. there’s question marks over our first choice defence, this was our second choice defence. Elliot might be bit inexperienced in proper grown up football, Saunders not match fit, Evans off in first half - that took away our cutting edge a bit.
|
|
TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,530
|
Post by TaiwanGas on Feb 11, 2022 1:01:26 GMT
Come on superbus, Oldham were looking for that through ball esp on the right hand side all night. And they were pressing us all night, never giving our midfield time to settle, look up or play forward. They pressed brilliantly esp on Coutts who was always having to do stuff quickly. I thought it was a masterclass in playing against a team who had 71% possession but were never able to take advantage of it. We may have been better than Oldham but we never really showed it did we? How many saves did their keeper make? One from Collins in the first half from a good move, every other save he made was comfortable, he was never extended. As for the “main stats”, better than them? Really? The main stat, goals scored showed we were not so good, we lost. I will always support us and talk us up but on Tuesday night we were done right and proper by a team fighting for their life and set up to frustrate us and hit us on the counter. They should have won 3-1 (ball over the line) and could have won with a few more goals but for Anssi. I don’t think JB is often out-thought tactically, but he was by Sheridan on Tuesday night. Move in to Mansfield now, win and somehow it will still be a good week! UTG! i’m going by what I saw on iFollow. You are being too polite to a awfully poor Oldham side going out the league. If we had been at our best we would have beaten them, Oldham helpless to stop us. We gifted them goals. We had possession without end product. We had the possession and physicality they couldn’t match. they didn’t take those points, we handed them to them. How? The goals conceded were poor. there’s question marks over our first choice defence, this was our second choice defence. Elliot might be bit inexperienced in proper grown up football, Saunders not match fit, Evans off in first half - that took away our cutting edge a bit. If Oldham were as awfully poor as you suggest, why should we need to be ‘at our best’ to beat them? Mmmmm.
|
|
towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 566
|
Post by towngas on Feb 11, 2022 10:16:44 GMT
Sometimes the dice doesn’t roll for you. Tuesday evening at Oldham was a perfect example of that. We lost our lynchpin Centre Half before KO. His replacement? Harries, who isn’t much good when up to speed, let alone having been out of the side for God knows how many games. Evans was obviously struggling and we had no big CF to act as a focal point and play them at their own game. All they did was pump long balls forward and drop balls over our defence, press relentlessly and we couldn’t get our game going. Unfortunately we are not yet imperious enough to be able to deal with teams like this.
Oldham are scrapping for their lives, are enjoying the new manager bounce and they caught us at an ideal moment for them. JB keeps on about his wonderful medical team, unfortunately they seem unable to do anything about the horrendous run of injuries being suffered across the whole squad.
I remember Gerry Francis winning the league above with a squad of 16 or so and we never suffered a long-term injury all season, and football was played on comparative ploughed fields compared with the billiard table surfaces these days.
|
|
|
Post by emperorsuperbus on Feb 11, 2022 12:23:36 GMT
i’m going by what I saw on iFollow. You are being too polite to a awfully poor Oldham side going out the league. If we had been at our best we would have beaten them, Oldham helpless to stop us. We gifted them goals. We had possession without end product. We had the possession and physicality they couldn’t match. they didn’t take those points, we handed them to them. How? The goals conceded were poor. there’s question marks over our first choice defence, this was our second choice defence. Elliot might be bit inexperienced in proper grown up football, Saunders not match fit, Evans off in first half - that took away our cutting edge a bit. If Oldham were as awfully poor as you suggest, why should we need to be ‘at our best’ to beat them? Mmmmm. i think that’s a fair comment. We didn’t need to be at our absolute best to beat them. if Oldham turned up dial to their max 10, our 7 or 8 would have beaten them. I agree. But my main point is we didn’t turn the dial up. Why>. so what was missing? A side without Connolly and Evans takes away too much of our effective edge? With his rotation system, Joey throws players in without match fitness or sharpness (which is a key algorithm in Football Manager simulation these days)? But also, the old saying “you only know the mettle of your players in how they are up for a wet Tuesday night at Oldham”. This was that wet cold Tuesday night at Oldham where we didn’t turn up the dial to what we are capable of. All those three things played more of a part than Oldhams performance IMO. Do you see my reasoning why it went wrong - I predicted this on the front page of this thread, in much same way as now saying to insist we are in good form, this blip caused by Oldham being good on the night, might be wide of the truth.
|
|
TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,530
|
Post by TaiwanGas on Feb 11, 2022 12:34:45 GMT
If Oldham were as awfully poor as you suggest, why should we need to be ‘at our best’ to beat them? Mmmmm. i think that’s a fair comment. We didn’t need to be at our absolute best to beat them. if Oldham turned up dial to their max 10, our 7 or 8 would have beaten them. I agree. But my main point is we didn’t turn the dial up. Why>. so what was missing? A side without Connolly and Evans takes away too much of our effective edge? With his rotation system, Joey throws players in without match fitness or sharpness (which is a key algorithm in Football Manager simulation these days)? But also, the old saying “you only know the mettle of your players in how they are up for a wet Tuesday night at Oldham”. This was that wet cold Tuesday night at Oldham where we didn’t turn up the dial to what we are capable of. All those three things played more of a part than Oldhams performance IMO. Do you see my reasoning why it went wrong - I predicted this on the front page of this thread, in much same way as now saying to insist we are in good form, this blip caused by Oldham being good on the night, might be wide of the truth. Understood, I think losing Taylor in the warm up was a key factor, he has saved the scoreline in many a game, without him the defence will struggle. Perhaps losing him in the warm up gave Oldham added incentive.
|
|
warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,574
|
Post by warehamgas on Feb 11, 2022 13:00:45 GMT
Come on superbus, Oldham were looking for that through ball esp on the right hand side all night. And they were pressing us all night, never giving our midfield time to settle, look up or play forward. They pressed brilliantly esp on Coutts who was always having to do stuff quickly. I thought it was a masterclass in playing against a team who had 71% possession but were never able to take advantage of it. We may have been better than Oldham but we never really showed it did we? How many saves did their keeper make? One from Collins in the first half from a good move, every other save he made was comfortable, he was never extended. As for the “main stats”, better than them? Really? The main stat, goals scored showed we were not so good, we lost. I will always support us and talk us up but on Tuesday night we were done right and proper by a team fighting for their life and set up to frustrate us and hit us on the counter. They should have won 3-1 (ball over the line) and could have won with a few more goals but for Anssi. I don’t think JB is often out-thought tactically, but he was by Sheridan on Tuesday night. Move in to Mansfield now, win and somehow it will still be a good week! UTG! i’m going by what I saw on iFollow. You are being too polite to a awfully poor Oldham side going out the league. If we had been at our best we would have beaten them, Oldham helpless to stop us. We gifted them goals. We had possession without end product. We had the possession and physicality they couldn’t match. they didn’t take those points, we handed them to them. How? The goals conceded were poor. there’s question marks over our first choice defence, this was our second choice defence. Elliot might be bit inexperienced in proper grown up football, Saunders not match fit, Evans off in first half - that took away our cutting edge a bit. I saw it in ifollow as well. I don’t think I’m being polite, just going on what I saw. They pressed all evening, conceded possession to us in unimportant areas and constantly attacked our right hand side having identified, rightly, that it was a weakness. And we weren’t good enough to counter their tactics. Perhaps we saw things differently. Points to make: ... If we were at our best we probably wouldn’t be in the position we are. If we were “at our best” last season we wouldn’t be in League 2. It’s a silly argument isn’t it, if we were better we’d be in League 1 or the Championship? We aren’t so we’re not. And I love the way we’ve started to play and some of the players we’ve attracted but “at our best”? Not sure we’ve been that apart from the first 20 mins against Tranmere and the match against Carlisle for much of this season. It’s just the last 10 matches or so when we’ve been better than we’ve been for the last two years. ... “We had possession and physicality they couldn’t match”. We did but they set up knowing that we’d have more possession and as we know possession means nothing without an end product. Possession means “b***** all. Oldham were happy to let us have possession in our half, there was no end product. That physicality and possession means nothing. It was a very good display by Oldham, masterminded by a tactically aware manager who set his team up perfectly to play us. And I think credit should go to them. But others will feel differently as you do. ... Perhaps we did gift them the goals but that happens. Our defenders were poor and not as good as the Oldham defenders, who stopped all our efforts save for the goal. Their defence was better than our defence on Tuesday.it happens, we move on. ... And the question marks over the players fitness? Well that’s up to the manager, if Saunders wasn’t match fit and you may be right then why was he playing? So yes it was a disappointing evening but we move on. As I said win tomorrow v Mansfield and it will still have been a good week. But we have to win! UTG!
|
|
|
Post by emperorsuperbus on Feb 11, 2022 23:20:49 GMT
i’m going by what I saw on iFollow. You are being too polite to a awfully poor Oldham side going out the league. If we had been at our best we would have beaten them, Oldham helpless to stop us. We gifted them goals. We had possession without end product. We had the possession and physicality they couldn’t match. they didn’t take those points, we handed them to them. How? The goals conceded were poor. there’s question marks over our first choice defence, this was our second choice defence. Elliot might be bit inexperienced in proper grown up football, Saunders not match fit, Evans off in first half - that took away our cutting edge a bit. I saw it in ifollow as well. I don’t think I’m being polite, just going on what I saw. They pressed all evening, conceded possession to us in unimportant areas and constantly attacked our right hand side having identified, rightly, that it was a weakness. And we weren’t good enough to counter their tactics. Perhaps we saw things differently. Points to make: ... If we were at our best we probably wouldn’t be in the position we are. If we were “at our best” last season we wouldn’t be in League 2. It’s a silly argument isn’t it, if we were better we’d be in League 1 or the Championship? We aren’t so we’re not. And I love the way we’ve started to play and some of the players we’ve attracted but “at our best”? Not sure we’ve been that apart from the first 20 mins against Tranmere and the match against Carlisle for much of this season. It’s just the last 10 matches or so when we’ve been better than we’ve been for the last two years. ... “We had possession and physicality they couldn’t match”. We did but they set up knowing that we’d have more possession and as we know possession means nothing without an end product. Possession means “b***** all. Oldham were happy to let us have possession in our half, there was no end product. That physicality and possession means nothing. It was a very good display by Oldham, masterminded by a tactically aware manager who set his team up perfectly to play us. And I think credit should go to them. But others will feel differently as you do. ... Perhaps we did gift them the goals but that happens. Our defenders were poor and not as good as the Oldham defenders, who stopped all our efforts save for the goal. Their defence was better than our defence on Tuesday.it happens, we move on. ... And the question marks over the players fitness? Well that’s up to the manager, if Saunders wasn’t match fit and you may be right then why was he playing? So yes it was a disappointing evening but we move on. As I said win tomorrow v Mansfield and it will still have been a good week. But we have to win! UTG! i was going to jump out of here into Mansfield thread, but there isn’t one. in defence of Joey, I guess players only return to match fit and sharp by playing them. What was the alternative option on the night to Saunders, with loft still out a few weeks. I too like some of the players we have recruited. But you only need to take a few key ones out a side to impact cutting edge both ends of pitch. Ref Liverpool without Van Dyke. You point to lots of possession but not the key passes and assist, how much of that is because Evans went off? Likewise Taylor was big miss. To what extent the team form you point to rests about too much on key men? football is funny this stage of season, the league table doesn’t tell you how difficult your next game or how good or bad the result is more than form table. When we play FGR if they have already won title I would fancy us to beat them, likewise if they or Tranmere are still battling for automatic that late after a poor run I would fancy us. Fancy us more against a side just won the title more than against a Mansfield side on flying run of form.
|
|