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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 22, 2021 10:55:11 GMT
the other managers were dismissed on basis there was a manager out there who would get much more from the playing talent laid at their disposal by the clever wheeling dealing of the board. it turns out it’s not all about passion and all it needs is a thug as manager, if that manager is watching his team outnumbered in his poorly matched up formation, watching his midfield unable to press and turnover against the greater numbers the opponents have there or hold the ball against the opponents greater numbered press, and the manager just doesn’t react, just carries on watching it. 😯 I’m afraid we have acquired too many fans who think the greater the celebrity factor, the bigger the Twitter following, the greater the football management skill, and we are just going to have to put them all into a B Ark before they wreck the gashead gene pool. How would you now look to set the side up against Swindon? Assuming - for argument's sake - that Rodman, Nicholson & Grant are all unavailable? How much notice do you think we should take of the opposition pre-match? managers are trying to out think each other before matches. If you are successful with plan A they will suss you out and stop it working. (Maybe that is what happened at ‘Liverpool). Barton was badly out thought by oppo at muff because they don’t tend to pack middle like that. Barton was managerially crap not to realise that and respond, just let it continue. To answer your question, I don’t know as much about Swindle as the rovers management who have watched them and analysed them. The first match was a mugging, they were no better than us. As they are about to go to the wall and not thrown as much money at this season as we have, we should be in a better place than them. But it’s what happens on the pitch which clubs stays up. And that comes down to cutting edge. And I sort of fear despite the crap place they are off the pitch, they may prove to have more cutting edge than us on pitch in run in. so in terms of setting up for this match, I would be wary of them scoring goals making it a hard night for us to respond to those goals. I’d keep it tight, and if it finishes 0.0 I’d take it. even before being outmanned in the middle last Saturday I’ve been posting here the middle, the ball retention/roaming playmaking thing is the bit Joey has been getting wrong. And I stick by that of course, because it’s becoming patently obvious to all of us isn’t it? You play 3 cb and 2 forwards you have less press pass and opponents more press pass in mf areas. So against Swindon I would play back 4, play narrow right down team, keep it tight in middle, give us numbers there. Maybe even drop Hanlon to bench. Like in game of chess, control the middle. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 22, 2021 11:21:49 GMT
Going by the general tone on Gaschat one gets the sense that Barton can do no wrong and even if we get relegated most seem convinced that given the chance to bring in his own players he will get us promoted next season. Clearly, they’ve managed to derive an awful lot of managerial talent in the course of all these defeats under Barton. Gas chat might prove to be right. Unlike with Tisdale and Garner the board may allow Joey free reign to put together any side and playing style he likes. That playing style may turn out to be wholly different than the excessive gamesmanship/cheating style Fleetwood came to be known for under Joey. Joey might show managerial skills he so far hasn’t showed at Rovers yet. And Joey might have finally grown up so it won’t end here like it did at Fleetwood with almighty punchup or a jail term for something he does when employed by us. Gas chat might be right, and all this might come to pass. Or they might be wrong. But at least we know we have a board who looks after the Rovers DNA |
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phil74
Joined: October 2018
Posts: 354
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Post by phil74 on Mar 22, 2021 12:22:49 GMT
How would you now look to set the side up against Swindon? Assuming - for argument's sake - that Rodman, Nicholson & Grant are all unavailable? How much notice do you think we should take of the opposition pre-match? managers are trying to out think each other before matches. If you are successful with plan A they will suss you out and stop it working. (Maybe that is what happened at ‘Liverpool). Barton was badly out thought by oppo at muff because they don’t tend to pack middle like that. Barton was managerially crap not to realise that and respond, just let it continue. To answer your question, I don’t know as much about Swindle as the rovers management who have watched them and analysed them. The first match was a mugging, they were no better than us. As they are about to go to the wall and not thrown as much money at this season as we have, we should be in a better place than them. But it’s what happens on the pitch which clubs stays up. And that comes down to cutting edge. And I sort of fear despite the crap place they are off the pitch, they may prove to have more cutting edge than us on pitch in run in. so in terms of setting up for this match, I would be wary of them scoring goals making it a hard night for us to respond to those goals. I’d keep it tight, and if it finishes 0.0 I’d take it. even before being outmanned in the middle last Saturday I’ve been posting here the middle, the ball retention/roaming playmaking thing is the bit Joey has been getting wrong. And I stick by that of course, because it’s becoming patently obvious to all of us isn’t it? You play 3 cb and 2 forwards you have less press pass and opponents more press pass in mf areas. So against Swindon I would play back 4, play narrow right down team, keep it tight in middle, give us numbers there. Maybe even drop Hanlon to bench. Like in game of chess, control the middle. Thanks again for taking the time to reply. This is really interesting. I agree - a back 4 seems essential to me. Leahy, Baldwin, Kilgour, Williams. Could then we play 4-3-3 with the ball and 4-5-1 without? I'm thinking the midfield would be: Upson, McCormick, Westbrooke, Oztumer and someone else?! (Hargreaves???) Ayunga up top. What do you think the managerial reluctance may be to playing a back 4? I notice that Oxford play 4-3-3 every game and look how successful they are in pressing opponents and scoring goals. My next question is about the roaming playmaker. If, for example, Oz plays that role - how far forward or deep should he be? Also, where does he start relative to Westbrooke? I see exactly what you mean about being outnumbered in midfield. The Gillingham away match was a peculiar example where, under Tommy, we didn't even try to play through midfield and instead pumped long balls over to the top to Hanlan, Daly and Ayunga. This actually looked quite effective in the first half. Although, naturally... we didn't ever score. That looked like some sort of 5-2-3? Out of interest, what do you feel is the key to understanding tactics and shape etc when you're watching the game? I'm probably too focused on the ball itself. What are you looking out for? |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 13:00:19 GMT
managers are trying to out think each other before matches. If you are successful with plan A they will suss you out and stop it working. (Maybe that is what happened at ‘Liverpool). Barton was badly out thought by oppo at muff because they don’t tend to pack middle like that. Barton was managerially crap not to realise that and respond, just let it continue. To answer your question, I don’t know as much about Swindle as the rovers management who have watched them and analysed them. The first match was a mugging, they were no better than us. As they are about to go to the wall and not thrown as much money at this season as we have, we should be in a better place than them. But it’s what happens on the pitch which clubs stays up. And that comes down to cutting edge. And I sort of fear despite the crap place they are off the pitch, they may prove to have more cutting edge than us on pitch in run in. so in terms of setting up for this match, I would be wary of them scoring goals making it a hard night for us to respond to those goals. I’d keep it tight, and if it finishes 0.0 I’d take it. even before being outmanned in the middle last Saturday I’ve been posting here the middle, the ball retention/roaming playmaking thing is the bit Joey has been getting wrong. And I stick by that of course, because it’s becoming patently obvious to all of us isn’t it? You play 3 cb and 2 forwards you have less press pass and opponents more press pass in mf areas. So against Swindon I would play back 4, play narrow right down team, keep it tight in middle, give us numbers there. Maybe even drop Hanlon to bench. Like in game of chess, control the middle. Thanks again for taking the time to reply. This is really interesting. I agree - a back 4 seems essential to me. Leahy, Baldwin, Kilgour, Williams. Could then we play 4-3-3 with the ball and 4-5-1 without? I'm thinking the midfield would be: Upson, McCormick, Westbrooke, Oztumer and someone else?! (Hargreaves???) Ayunga up top. What do you think the managerial reluctance may be to playing a back 4? I notice that Oxford play 4-3-3 every game and look how successful they are in pressing opponents and scoring goals. My next question is about the roaming playmaker. If, for example, Oz plays that role - how far forward or deep should he be? Also, where does he start relative to Westbrooke? I see exactly what you mean about being outnumbered in midfield. The Gillingham away match was a peculiar example where, under Tommy, we didn't even try to play through midfield and instead pumped long balls over to the top to Hanlan, Daly and Ayunga. This actually looked quite effective in the first half. Although, naturally... we didn't ever score. That looked like some sort of 5-2-3? Out of interest, what do you feel is the key to understanding tactics and shape etc when you're watching the game? I'm probably too focused on the ball itself. What are you looking out for? Remember the “simple instructions” mantra? If I was Wael if I would have told Widdrington to manage until the end of the season or clear his desk. We could hardly have done any worse really. The agricultural approach seemed to be getting some traction in a Coughlan-esque way and sort of shows how you can over think football at this level because teams don’t look comfortable under a relentless barrage of high balls with a big lad trying to get on the end of it. Also I echo the last paragraph, I’m always amazed how people can take so much information in when watching a high tempo game of football, I consciously try to remember to watch the field rather than the ball but my vision always gets sucked into focusing on what is happening to the ball at the expense of other aspects much of the time. |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 22, 2021 13:17:47 GMT
managers are trying to out think each other before matches. If you are successful with plan A they will suss you out and stop it working. (Maybe that is what happened at ‘Liverpool). Barton was badly out thought by oppo at muff because they don’t tend to pack middle like that. Barton was managerially crap not to realise that and respond, just let it continue. To answer your question, I don’t know as much about Swindle as the rovers management who have watched them and analysed them. The first match was a mugging, they were no better than us. As they are about to go to the wall and not thrown as much money at this season as we have, we should be in a better place than them. But it’s what happens on the pitch which clubs stays up. And that comes down to cutting edge. And I sort of fear despite the crap place they are off the pitch, they may prove to have more cutting edge than us on pitch in run in. so in terms of setting up for this match, I would be wary of them scoring goals making it a hard night for us to respond to those goals. I’d keep it tight, and if it finishes 0.0 I’d take it. even before being outmanned in the middle last Saturday I’ve been posting here the middle, the ball retention/roaming playmaking thing is the bit Joey has been getting wrong. And I stick by that of course, because it’s becoming patently obvious to all of us isn’t it? You play 3 cb and 2 forwards you have less press pass and opponents more press pass in mf areas. So against Swindon I would play back 4, play narrow right down team, keep it tight in middle, give us numbers there. Maybe even drop Hanlon to bench. Like in game of chess, control the middle. Thanks again for taking the time to reply. This is really interesting. I agree - a back 4 seems essential to me. Leahy, Baldwin, Kilgour, Williams. Could then we play 4-3-3 with the ball and 4-5-1 without? I'm thinking the midfield would be: Upson, McCormick, Westbrooke, Oztumer and someone else?! (Hargreaves???) Ayunga up top. What do you think the managerial reluctance may be to playing a back 4? I notice that Oxford play 4-3-3 every game and look how successful they are in pressing opponents and scoring goals. My next question is about the roaming playmaker. If, for example, Oz plays that role - how far forward or deep should he be? Also, where does he start relative to Westbrooke? I see exactly what you mean about being outnumbered in midfield. The Gillingham away match was a peculiar example where, under Tommy, we didn't even try to play through midfield and instead pumped long balls over to the top to Hanlan, Daly and Ayunga. This actually looked quite effective in the first half. Although, naturally... we didn't ever score. That looked like some sort of 5-2-3? Out of interest, what do you feel is the key to understanding tactics and shape etc when you're watching the game? I'm probably too focused on the ball itself. What are you looking out for? lot of questions to unpack there. Firstly I am sure your interest in the game is the right one. I have seen hundreds of rovers games and whenever managers get it wrong and it results in flat performance and crap result, too many fans turn on the players and claim it’s lack of passion or effort. With so much live football on tv now you can see benches constantly changing it, and not just little tweaks. It doesn’t need to be saved up till half time. And there is unlimited number of variables that need reacting to, such as moment under pressure full back picks up yellow one bench has a problem other bench opportunity. however, what are the right answers. Football is the most argued and discussed hobby on earth. As you just mentioned yourself from the 1980’s way Tommy had the squad playing apparently assembled for garnerball 2021 style, there’s numerous way to go about achieving success or failure. I don’t claim to have all answers, just opinions I post to learn from the responses. But to go back to para 1, I suspect its quickness and soundness of decision making in the fine margins of each game that can make a big difference. i don’t think Joey has a reluctance to back 4. I think he prefers this. Whenever we try three centre backs this season we seem less secure, probably because inexperience midfield is getting over run. What to do about our midfield and you mention roaming playmaker. Specifically roaming playmaker gets in pocket of space and asks for ball to feet, and continues to do this over and over until knackered, so needs to be someone with good lungs. We achieved 2 promotions with Sinclair in the team. You notice how all footballers in this era are broad shouldered and nothing at waist? Not an ounce of fat. Except Josh Barrel, strolling Mars bar. But any playmaking midfielder is going to struggle if too much press on them, so if you are going down style of midfield playmaking you can’t allow your midfield to be outmanned, so that’s 1 up top and only 2 CB formation. And then you need a blend of midfielders. England had a golden generation beckhams Geralds and Pele suggested the most important player in there was butt the water carrier. Or water butt I suppose. What are we looking out for? Are we outmanned anywhere? Anyone getting double teamed. Have they kept it tight for 70 now brought on extra striker and winger. Is our plan working? Or our playmakers closed down too quickly? Loads of stuff needing tweaking innit. |
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Post by laughinggas on Mar 22, 2021 14:06:17 GMT
Sincs did not appear after Feb in either promotion season.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 22, 2021 16:06:31 GMT
Sincs did not appear after Feb in either promotion season. already had the most man of matches sown up for season by then. He was arguably even better in his lung busting MF role in L1. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 16:24:15 GMT
Going by the general tone on Gaschat one gets the sense that Barton can do no wrong and even if we get relegated most seem convinced that given the chance to bring in his own players he will get us promoted next season. Clearly, they’ve managed to derive an awful lot of managerial talent in the course of all these defeats under Barton. Gas chat might prove to be right. Unlike with Tisdale and Garner the board may allow Joey free reign to put together any side and playing style he likes. That playing style may turn out to be wholly different than the excessive gamesmanship/cheating style Fleetwood came to be known for under Joey. Joey might show managerial skills he so far hasn’t showed at Rovers yet. And Joey might have finally grown up so it won’t end here like it did at Fleetwood with almighty punchup or a jail term for something he does when employed by us. Gas chat might be right, and all this might come to pass. Or they might be wrong. But at least we know we have a board who looks after the Rovers DNA Wael will have to double his losses if he wants Barton to have a similar budget that Fleetwood gave him so perhaps a free reign isn't such a great idea. As for growing up, his antics after the Plymouth game, blaming the ref for Rovers being outplayed indicate that he still isn't out of nappies. |
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,537 
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Post by harrybuckle on Mar 22, 2021 18:02:23 GMT
I did not hear king Joey blame the buy sensed his and fans utter frustration at repeated defensive errors. We need to sort it otherwise we are down.
The simple basics of defence is knowing when dangerous situations emerge..
Something Clarke Garnet Tisdale could not solve.
But can Joey ? The jury is out
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 18:24:23 GMT
I did not hear king Joey blame the buy sensed his and fans utter frustration at repeated defensive errors. We need to sort it otherwise we are down. The simple basics of defence is knowing when dangerous situations emerge.. Something Clarke Garnet Tisdale could not solve. But can Joey ? The jury is out So he was having a go at the ref about our repeated defensive errors? |
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 22, 2021 18:48:37 GMT
I did not hear king Joey blame the buy sensed his and fans utter frustration at repeated defensive errors. We need to sort it otherwise we are down. The simple basics of defence is knowing when dangerous situations emerge.. Something Clarke Garnet Tisdale could not solve. But can Joey ? The jury is out why did Joey change from the 4 to the 5? I like the way he came in with the 4 and stuck to it. But taking the man out of midfield and putting him defence, the midfield isnt functioning as well putting more pressure on the defence. |
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